Don't Panic!
Jan 17, 21:20
As is usual in these situations, some people are starting to panic. Do not be panicked into selling your collection. No decision has been made with regard to legislation, there is no evidence that old specification weapons are a problem, or that legislation will make an iota of difference to gun crime. Or indeed what form the legislation, if any will take. If banning legal ownership of handguns only had the result in increasing gun crime how is legislating on deactivated and inoperable guns going to help?
THE WORSE THING WE CAN DO IS NOTHING
Our aim must be to show the government that a ban is both impractical and frankly unworkable. Issuing of a collectors license while I believe unnecessary would make more sense. I am still concerned however that this would leave honest collectors vulnerable to future legislation and could make criminals of people who are too scared to stick their heads above the parapets and admit they have a collection.
The mistake the general public is making is to believe the nonsense they read in some newspapers and the propaganda spread by some anti gun groups. Sensational headlines sell papers.
It must be our job to educate and inform. We need to explain to the uneducated that we are responsible collectors. We have amongst our numbers doctors, lawyers, teachers, police officers, fire brigade officers, soldiers, both serving and retired, in fact members of all our armed services, magistrates, prison officers, scientists, members of the clergy, museums and so the list goes on.
Lesson one
Deactivated guns are not cheap
Deactivated guns are not easy to reactivate.
You would need specialist equipment, spares, extensive knowledge and access to ammunition, which is not readily available. I certainly wouldn't want to be near a reactivated gun if it was fired, as the chances are it would blow up and do more harm to the user. This quote came from a gunsmith.
Deactivated guns account for a minuscule percentage of gun crime.
When was the last time you heard of anyone using a Tommy gun in a bank hold up? Or a Vickers machine gun being pulled from a handbag and being brandished at the old lady behind the counter in the post office. All old spec, but also old weapons, which no self respecting criminal would dream of using. They want modern weapons that look cool. Generally these weapons are manufactured after 1995 and therefore if deactivated would be new specification.
Gun is a four letter word.
How many collectors openly admit to collecting guns?
We are being made to feel guilty for pursuing an interest that harms no one .
Just because some people can't understand why we collect and display deactivated weapons it doesn't mean we should be made to feel like lepers. I personally don't understand why anyone would collect plastic bags, toilet seats or stuffed toys but I respect their right to do so.
Bayonets
This is the easiest way to make your gun into a deadly weapon.
Go to any boot fair and laying in the bottom of an old cardboard box you will more than likely find an old rusty bayonet, the rustier the better (bit of blood poisoning as well as a nasty cut) If however you can't wait for the Sunday bootie pop along to your local supermarket and buy a nice sharp kitchen knife, some gaffa tape..............anyway I am sure you get the idea. If people are intent on doing harm to each other they will do so. Most violent crime is committed in the heat of the moment and not premeditated and kitchen knives are by far the most common weapon used. I have an idea ban knives.................oh no that won't work, have you ever tried peeling an apple with a spoon? The only way to prevent violent crime is to ban people..........makes about as much sense as legislating on deactivated guns.
There is a knife crime in the UK every 24 minutes.............
Enough said
Comments
Commenting is closed for this article.
Hi
This legislation is nothing more than the goverment avoiding the real problem of real firearms, they cannot cope with the present situation.
They took away our handguns our soft air guns and now contemplating deacts, some insignificant pleb in the civil service with nothing more to do thinks it might be a good idea, migh even please the minority do-gooders in our society.This little man will not consider the companies and individual’s that will be put out of business.
This is another law that will make no difference to the gun crime which has rissen even after taking guns from law abbiding people.
The goverment do it because they can, make your vote count in the next election
Kevin
— Kevin Andrews · Jan 18, 11:37 · #
hey all.
i am a young 18 year old re-enactor, i’m worried the coppers are going to take the rifle i have for re-enacting. i dont understand what is going on. all i know is that they are taking deactivated weapons off people. y, when the real problem is the live firearms been carried. soceity is too politically correct most the time.
mike
— Michael Barley · Jan 18, 13:34 · #
I’m going to say this using the results of the Anti-Social Behaviour Act (2004) and the Violent Crime Reduction Act (2006) as a basis. You will not have to hand anything in. The Police will not knock on your door asking for your pre-95 de-acts. You will be able to keep your pre-95’s if this piece of Legislation comes to pass. If anything, now is the time to buy pre-95’s, not sell.
— BJ Quick · Jan 18, 17:45 · #
Taking away our right to own a Historical Deactivated weapon for re-enactment/displays or just as a collection piece is just totally out of order , normal law obiding citizens are now made to feel like they are commiting a crime because of some face-less beaurocrat who know’s nothing about re-enactment or what goes on at Re-enactments , Re-enactors are proffesional and are guided and watched by safety marshalls , and everything is rehearsed and weapons are checked so they are safe before and after any public display. I My self am a Re-enactor , and it is very safe and controlled , in my time as a re-enactor i have fired many small arms and artillery pieces! , and i am only 15 years old!. aslong as you don’t rush things and you listen to the people who are in charge , it is very safe and alot of fun! , for the public , but more so for us , the re-enactors! , and banning deac’s , will not solve the current problem with Illegal Fire-arms! , and the thing with Replica Fire-arms , they cannot fire Live ammuntion due to the material used to construct them! , they are not made from gun quality metal , i can see where they are coming from , they look real and you can’t tell if it is a toy or not from a distance! , but they are 100% safe! , banning them will just cause more problems amongst collectors , museums and re-enactors!
— Sam Wilson · Jan 19, 12:31 · #
Spending 1 day in the garage with nothing more sophisticated than few pieces of wood, and a pot of black paint and some photographs…..I could make a very good replica of a gun (just have to look at a Sten for example)- which could potentially be used convincingly in a “bank job” or any threatening crime – how can this be controlled? or legislated against? De-Activated weapon are no more dangerous than suchlike handmade replicas.
— D.R.Nicholson · Jan 19, 20:22 · #
“Have a collective voice in the coming debate” where you not around when they banned handguns? There will be no debate the law will be passed and you will be required to give up all pre and post 85 de-activated weapons, your bulk standard MP can’t tell the difference so it will be a blanket ban. Sell now while they have value unless you want to sell then for scrap which is essentially what a de-act weapons is.
— Tim · Jan 20, 12:43 · #
What’s going to be the next target for a ban? Are they going to stop soldiers carrying rifles in case somebody gets hurt? This government needs to get a life and stop imposing bans which are unenforceable, it’s become an obsession with this nanny state of ours. Such a ban won’t take a single firearm out of criminal hands or reduce gun crime.
— B Carrier · Jan 20, 13:28 · #
Hi, yet agane the thick as s*** MPs who we voted for try to do what they think is right !! they make a head lines so as to feel they know the voice of the peaple? bul**** it makes me want to vote Nat/front makes blood boil.
— Paul · Jan 20, 20:45 · #
Knife crime is the real problem in the UK right now. As said there is a knife crime every half-hour or so. This is the real problem, but this is the nanny state, punish the innocent and spoil the guilty. Heaven forbid a knife wielding chav get a prison sentance.. he/she may get offended.
A vote of no confidence in this clueless rabble of a government is the right vote.
— Andy Moore · Jan 20, 23:38 · #
I just missed some other news today on this,can any one fill me in on whats going on now with the legislation?
— Barry · Jan 21, 14:15 · #
@ Barry
The only thing that has been said is this on the Home Office Site.
Load of old @r$e.
— bob · Jan 21, 20:58 · #
Gentlemen et al
We are unfortunate enough to be experiencing a Government in turmoil – an unpopular government desperate not only to do the right thing but also to be seen as doing so….thus courting a short term popularity, and diverting attention away from other issues.
There is no escaping the perception amongst the general public that gun crime / flagrant use of firearms, is rampant….it does not matter whether there is any truth in this ….that IS the popular perception, heightened by a media striving to sell copy.
This is not a battle we can win, one only has to look at the crushing of the fox hunting lobby, ( forget the rights and wrongs of that debate ! ) even with all the support of the Countryside Alliance, to see that we cannot muster anything like the same support.
There is also no point being vocally abusive of the Ministers involved and vowing to vote for another party….by the time that chance arises…. the legislation will be history…as will our collections of historic arms.
I entirely understand other bloggers intense sense of frustration at being singled out…however confrontation will get us nowhere…and only ever, ever, ever, fight the battles you can win !
We HAVE to compromise and accept that there is a problem with some criminal elements re activating weapons – and also accept that a form of licensing would be appropriate to monitor the weapons currently in existence and therefore on the open market.
Licensing would also be a legal recognition of our status as curators of examples of superb military engineering history and therefore legitimise, what has sometimes been seen as a strange hobby.
Once again, I re iterate that we have to be completely transparent and open, to achieve a solution where both sides are content that the other poses no threat.
I commend the views of Simon F, he and I are of the same mind….I humbly hope the majority of other mature collectors
would agree
— Patrick C · Jan 22, 00:18 · #
Please please MPs get a life. Yes there are guns out there the BBC proved how easy it is to bring weapons into the country. So please target the real places and make eveyone safe including me and my fellow collectors.
— M Cadman · Jan 22, 19:30 · #
Licensing bad idea remmeber that once they know what deactivated guns you own, its really easy to take tham off you.
How do you think they were able to take all our handguns off us.
— Gary · Jan 23, 04:23 · #
Nicely put Patrick.
I agree some of the comments on here only help build on the idea that nutters are the ones ownning “potentially dangerous firearms”.
A little selected editing of the blog on this website would be all that was required to convince a committee to just ban the whole lot…
— Mike Fish · Jan 23, 08:46 · #
I have to say, if this new law does pass, then what happens to all the reeactors and collectors of these fine collectables? im only 15 years old, and i want to be a reenactor when im 16 this year. and i always wanted to by a lee enfield for my first deactivated rifle. but seeing as this new law is going to affect me if it does pass, well then labour goverment have no clue on what to do with this country! next theyll be banning kitchen knifes and other collectable knifes. i was affected by the new “replica firearms law” last year, for i was a keen fan of airsofting, but that has been taken away… so its going like this for me in the future…
1) airsoft guns – BANNED
2) deactiavted guns – BANNED?
3)collectable knifes?? whats going to happen with them… i hope this law never passes! I HATE THE LABOUR GOVERMENT (and IM NOT a bratty ASBO teenager or yob thankfully! im a good guy!)
— Jordan Toovey · Jan 23, 18:56 · #
what can you say…. at times like this i find words that describe the unfolding events with the governments plans, very hard to find.
i have been a serous collector of w2 weapons for some years know , and have amassed some fine examples of British, American and German hardware.
in the eyes of the government and certain individuals, i’m a gun nut, and a threat to the human race..
well that just not the case i don’t see them that way to everyone else its a gun but to me its history, we’ve all watched a few war films in our time.
bridge over the river qui.
a bridge to far.
tora tora tora.
the eagle has landed.
the battle of britan to name but a few.
i started my collection because i wanted to own a small piece of world history, i know were my guns were used thats why i bought them, i also no that there is a strong possibility that at some point in there history that they might have taken lives but i’m sure that they also saved lives, information that i will never know for certain.
there deactivated for a reason i have no intentions of ever altering that fact.
im using my own money to keep our history alive.it worry s me to think that in years to come the only reference to any of the world wars, will be in book form, and all fiscal objects would have been destroyed.
— julian · Jan 24, 00:24 · #
i am a serving member of the armed forces i think it is daft to ban something that will make no diffrence to the ammount of gun crime in the uk, to bring a firearm into this country from europe would be so easy.
if you new the right people im sure you could buy a fully working pistol for half the price.
all it will do is shut down people that make a living out of suppling a part of history.
— Steve · Jan 24, 01:17 · #
Here we go again! a knee jerk reaction and we will ban it…forget the implications of ‘law abiding collectors and buisneses’ Did banning hand guns help the situation? No it just made many RFD’s very rich in compenasation and cost us, the tax payers billions that no MP will confess to the REAL figure. So now all the compensation money has gone dry we will ban batons, air soft, anything that looks like a gun, but oh yes! we will ban the sale of it, ie us the buisness man, but if you all ready have it, well its ok keep it…you cant sell it, but is it really going to stop you passing it on for cash? or using it in a crime.
The sooner this goevernment looked at severe punishment for ANY crime wether it be petty theft or gun crime the offender may then think twice before the offence…how long we before we ban the kitchen knife because some youth has threatened someone and got a caution having stabbed a granny for her pension. Sort out the juditional system and get my vote back!
— Mark · Jan 24, 23:06 · #
It would now appear that once again, the present government is to embark on the same crusade as in 2006. We can shout and scream all we like here on this forum, I will however not preach to the converted. My personal fortune and retirement funds are entwined with my passion, a passion of 34 years, 34 years collecting militaria. I served my country as an infantry soldier regardless of who was in government, with an exemplary service record. It is time that government started serving me and you in preserving your rights, don’t bother writing down your contempt for there Electoral Spin go see your MP. I remain sympathetic to all the victims of crime in the sure Knowledge that all the people leaving comments on this forum are of the same feeling. I welcome and encourage the discussion from any one who is apposed to my past time and will happily discuss this issue with members of the concerned general public who wish to contact me regarding the Facts.
— David Main · Jan 24, 23:20 · #
Mmmmmmmmm !
I am in the strange and slightly disconcerting position of agreeing with Michael Fish.
The more inflammatory the comments made by some of this sites correspondents, the more credibility is lost…. regrettably by all of us.
Surely, those bloggers who suggest that witholding information about their collections of inert arms from the authorities are not serious ???….or are they looking forward with relish to the prospect of the local ‘Tactical Support Group’ breaking down their doors in the small hours, turning the house over, and generally frightening the horses ?
Whilst ‘flame mail’ allows some of the more ‘sectionable’ elements to express their feelings of persecution….now is the time for cool heads to prevail.
I would suggest, and I am sure it has already been thought of, that Arundel co ordinates with the other highly respectable De-Ac dealers, in conjunction with selected collectors, ( Barristers would be useful ! ), to seek a meeting with a Junior Home Office Minister….It would be unlikely, that one would gain access to the top bananarette at this early stage.
The purpose of the meeting is to establish what form of legislation is envisaged, and how we, the majority of responsible curators may be able to moderate the excesses that may imposed upon us, and to determine what may assauge and mollify the concerns that the Police and Public have, in a postive way.
Incidentally has anyone considered the possible implications to those collectors of “Weapons of an obselete calibre” ?….they are, in fact, far easier to be rendered harmful once the propellant and projectile are manufactured ?…..possibly another avenue of support ?
Once again,I emphasise that the way forward is compromise and transparency…hide and they will seek !…be open and they will see there is nothing to fear.
Lets move this conversation forward, from complaining about our mis fortune to positive action to prevent a potentially catastrophic conclusion.
— Patrick C · Jan 24, 23:39 · #
Here is the problem, gun owners in the UK don’t stick together.
When handguns were banned other shooting groups didn’t care. The whole as long as they leave me alone everthing is ok thing.
You guys need to stick together and try to fight this one.
For me I had my handguns taken from me however I now live in a normal place USA and own many guns, that work!
Keep up the good work.
Gary
— Gary · Jan 26, 00:13 · #
It is heartening to see some sensible comments on this blog, amongst the other immature comments from people who I would hate to meet if they had a firearm in their hands. As someone who has longed for some control over deactivated weapons it has been a boost to read the Home Secretary’s comments. I do however have sympathy with genuine collectors and have no wish to cause problems for museums and genuine re-enactors. It is my belief that the bulk of weapons that have finished their useful working life should be smelted down or completely crushed, with just a few examples of each one deactivated for the genuine collector/museum. However, they should be treated in just the same way as genuine firearms, as that is what they are. This means a firearms certificate, proper storage and a genuine reason for possession. You must all accept that there are people out there who will reactivate them for the criminal element and at the moment it is just too easy. This is only part of the battle against gun crime and, as some of your correspondents have said, quite correctly, efforts must also be made to prevent the criminal importation of all firearms. There should be a sustained programme of education to show the youth of today that guns are not ‘cool’ and are not just a macho accessory. It would be interesting to know what happened to the deactivated guns that were stolen from the founders of this site – not an ideal advertisement for the hobby. I just hope that none of them were reactivated and used to kill someone, like the gun that killed my son. PLease think again before rushing to oppose the new proposals. If you can show that you are sensible and genuine then you may be able to get your point across but you must be able to make compromises. The situation as it is at the moment cannot be allowed to continue.
— steve · Jan 27, 01:00 · #
FOR ALL YOU LEAGAL EXPERTS OUT THERE ,“GOVERNMENT GOALPOST CHANGING,” IS THERE ANY LEGAL FIGHTBACK FOR COLLECTORS? If the government does manage to ban pre 95 spec deacs could collectors claim compensation? The entire idea of the deactivation certificate was originaly introduced to protect collectors from having their collections seized and making a set standard for dealers to work too.The deactivation certificate with all post 88 deac,s states that work has been carried out on the weapon in a manner approved by the secretary of state and no firearms certifiate is reqired to possess this weapon.as most collectors bought their deacs in good faith with this in mind who should have to pay for resubmission for a current spec deac cert,?would the government have to compensate owners for siezed weapons?If so could they justify destroying historical artifacts and spending large sums of money compensating people for guns that do not work in the first place?
“just some food for thought,”
— john s green · Jan 27, 19:16 · #
just reading johns comment above and I tottaly agree, de acts were legalised following the self loading ban after hungerford and a firarm ceased to be a firearm once it was deactivated ! It was a cheap policy of the government of the day to let you have them deactivated and therfore no compensation, same thing happened with pistols after dunblane, people could if you wanted, keep your prized possessions. So now we find ourselves with a constantly moving set of goal posts. WHEN WILL SOMEBODY TAKE NOTE, ITS THE FAULT OF THE CRIMINAL ELEMENT OF SOCIETY THAT DO ALL THE BAD THINGS NOT THE LAW ABIDING! LOOK AT THE MIS CONCEIVED VCR BILL, BAN TOY GUNS, AND WE WILL ALL LIVE TOGTHER IN HARMONY,
— mark f · Jan 27, 19:53 · #
I have just been reading steves coments and I welcome his imput, we are all entitled to an opinion,I do have some sympathy for how he feels and I can see he is trying to make some sense out of the death of his son,But at the end of the day if one person is determined to do harm to another they will find a way to do it!How far down the road do we go in banning things? a few months ago two doctors tried to blow up an airport with a car full of gas cylinders and petrol! both are cheaper infinatly more dangerous and more easily available than a welded up second world war relic!If we follow the ban everything arguement to its logical conclusion will you need a special permit to buy gas cylinders/petrol?should we all have to buy our meat pre-sliced and only qualified chef,s own carving knifes?
— john s green · Jan 27, 21:46 · #
Steve, terribly sad to hear about your son. An interesting point of view and one which I am sure is the counter-point to many on here. Could you tell us the technical detail regarding the weapon used to murder your son? Many on here don’t believe that this sort of thing is possible and together with sweeping statements by the government which half the time don’t have any basis in fact (eg plastic airsoft guns can be made to fire real bullets) it muddies the water of this discussion. With some solid facts in the open it should be possible to get over some of the “knee jerk” comments from both camps…
— Mike Fish · Jan 28, 10:51 · #
Thank you Mike for your interest. The gun that killed my son was an Uzi sub machine pistol. It had been deactivated, presumably prior to 1995, because the offender managed to acquire a new breech block and barrel and without any engineering training, he reactivated it. He was known to have a fascination with guns but was not a career crimnal, although he had been in trouble previously. He collected weapons and on the night of the murders ( he also killed my son’s half-brother) he went out with the Uzi, a crossbow and a Samurai sword, telling his neighbour he was going to meet his destiny. The deactivated parts he had replaced were found in his flatso you see that I find it very hard to accept all the comments made by collectors as to how impossible or difficult it is to reactivate these guns. The Greenwoods proved otherwise. Steve
— steve · Jan 29, 03:14 · #
Steve, I know of the case of which you speak. My deepest sympathies to you and your family. Would you personally consider the post-95 deactivation standard suffucient to prevent such a terrible thing happening again?
— Mike Fish · Jan 29, 10:11 · #
Sorry to hear about your son. A tragic event. I appreciate the comment about the ease by which he reactivated. Where did he get the ammo from?
It raises a large number of questions. No doubt the ability to get hold of the deac played a major part in this incident. But he also went out and procured 2 items that were illegal to procure and then managed to get hold of ammo. It is pointless to speculate but I wonder if the deac had not been available whether a normal firearm would have been obtained. I would guess that he found a tool to commit the crime he intended to commit rather than the availability of the tool driving the crime.
It is clear that the banning of hand guns has not reduced gun crime or kids being shot. But nobody is able to compete effectively now at the olympics.
Banning guns will no more stop crime than banning prostitution has stopped it or the people trafficking and bannng drugs has done nothing to stop the destruction of young lives.
Control is the only way forward, licensing. Banning just puts the whole lot onto the black market and underground. I am allowed a FAC and allowed to own WWII rifles to shoot but would not be allowed to own a pre 95 Lanchester SMG? It would be an inconsitency in the law.
We need to find a way to take the guns off the streets. If they had background checks on owners like they do on FACs then even minor criminals could be filtered out. Still wont stop kids from getting shot as guns will simply be obtained on the black market.
I say this with total honesty. If there was any way that taking the collection of guns off my wall at home would prevent more kids from being shot I would sign up immediatly and gladly hand them over. But there is no evidence that this would help and there is strong historic evidence (hand guns) that banning does not work.
If you want to ban guns then support the bill but if you want to stop kids from being shot, as everyone on this forum I suspect does, then we need to work together to find an effective solution to the problem.
Sorry if my views are insensitive, thy are not intended in that way and I have no doubt if I was in your position I too would be inclined to take that position.
— Simon F · Jan 29, 12:13 · #
Don’t they realise if they ban early spec de-acts then the criminals will simply bring 1% more modern guns like SMGs from the continent like they do for the other 99% of guns used in crimes.
Another problem with banning de-acts is the problem that came about when handguns were banned, or proposed to be banned, many of them will be sold cheaply and quickly and may find their way into hands of criminals.
Another thing that doe’nt get mentioned enough, all the ammuntion that gets used in reactiaved pistols and most SMGs is already illegal so whats banning de-acts going to do, stop criminals worrying about breaking the law owning/coverting them?
My final point I would like to make is the fact that people who have the technology/knowlege/skills to covert deacts to live fire have the technology/knowlegde/skills to scratch build weapons!
— Joe · Jan 29, 14:54 · #
Steve,
Deepest sympathies to you, I too have heard of your sad case.
I personally feel that all UZI SMGs should be called back for more stringent deactivation.
These have a barrel which is easlily removable and replaceable without any tools atall and there are the only deactived weapons that I am aware of that this can be done with.
The barrels that are avalible for them are already a section 5 component so totally illegal and banned and so would be a breach block so banning the deacts is one step (weather a step in the right direction or not is at debate), but if the criminals can get and distribute these components, they can and do this easilly with full weapons and ammunition. So making those illegal, hasn’t stopped them being in circulation.
I agree 100% with anybody who says something must be done to stop gun crime, but I belive there are other issues that should be a far higher priority for the government to put effort into and act on like the mass impotation of weapons through our docks daily, and much tougher sentencing for anybody involved in anything illegal with firearms.
Deepest sympathies again.
— Joe · Jan 29, 15:14 · #
I visited the Greenwoods workshop on a couple of occasions during the ninties, it was wall to wall with weapon spares and specialized gunsmith,s tooling, but unfortunatly as licensed dealers they were entitled to have it!They have done a lot of damage to the trade and honest collectors!The availability of prohibited weapon parts was a big problem at that time as besides the Greenwoods supply their was not much restriction on US gun dealers to supply parts mail order to the uk !the law has now been tightened up on prohibited spares ,however this will always remain a problem ! the trouble is any pre 95 spec deac ban would probably apply to all smg,s and automatic rifles regardless of type, I can,t see a garand or an stg 44 being as easy to reactivate as an uzi, maybe the problem needs looking at on a weapon by weapon basis!while licensing and collectors permits may sound like a good idea in theory I just think they would be used at some future time as a who,s got what list for future bans next time the government wants to scapegoat somebody!
— john s green · Jan 29, 16:26 · #
Steve, I feel for your loss I really do and my hart goes out to you and your family.
However banning deacts is not the way to go. Why should the British gun collector keep having his legally purchased guns taken off him?
Cars kill people but I don’t see people wanting to ban them, people have been killed at football games but no ban there.
This all comes down to numbers in 1996 only 54,000 people owned handguns so easy to blame and easy to ban.
It is hard to reactivate a gun even by the 1995 standard unless you have access to the right parts. How many people can do this? Not many.
Yes it is easy to say ban them when a gun is reactivated and used but if you look at the total sale of deactivated guns this number is very, very low.
Also remember that since the so called “ gold standard in gun control” in the UK has come into effect gun crime has gone up from 3000 to 10,000 incedents per year.
Guns do not kill people kill people and deacts for the most part are harmless.
I hope no one takes offence over my comments, however it is about time people who collect any type of guns in the UK start to stick together and stick up for their rights.
Because if you don’t very soon there will be a day when you will no longer be able to own any type of gun.
Gary
— Gary · Jan 30, 02:40 · #
I Totally Agree With Gary , We Need To Stick together , Start a commity comprised of Re-enactors and Collectors.
if we bunch up then maybe we will be-able to do something about this!
— Sam Wilson · Jan 30, 11:28 · #
I feel that the Government’s next step is to compel collectors (under threat of prosecution for non-compliance)to declare all deactivated weapons held to be Certificated under a new Register. This will enable the Authorities to come directly to your home when (not if) they decide to confiscate them. Certificate & Confiscate!!!!
— Terry Pullen · Jan 30, 15:53 · #
I have seen a lot of mention in press comments and blogs on the subject at least 3000 reactivated Greenwoods guns are ment to be in circulation ! I believe this to be an exageration put out by the press at the time of their trial, a good preportion of their stock was sold to normal collectors fully deactivated! the press and police probably thought it would sound more menacing to say all their stock went to the criminal underworld! I would put the number at more like a couple of hundred weapons “wich is still bad!“but it does annoy me that the press can,t seem to report gun related stories objectivley without hyping the negative angle to the max!
— john s green · Jan 30, 17:19 · #
First i would like to say sorry to steve about his son. i have seen alot of my friends killed or injured in combat over the recent years so i know the effect of firarms, however i beleve that banning deativated weapons will not solve anything at all with the amount of weapons that get smugled in from Europe. I mean just think if they can smugle people across the chanel just imagine how easy it would be to get a weapon into England the same way.
I think also the Goverment has probley already made up its mind and is just waiting for the right time to let this one out of the bag (election time) if you catch my drift.
— Carl · Jan 30, 20:00 · #
Hello all, I have set up a petition on Downing Street’s website opposing the ban. You can find it (and my reasons for opposing the ban) here:
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/Deactivated/
If you agree, please sign up.
Thanks
— Simon Buckley · Feb 1, 13:51 · #
ref simon buckleys petition(39)there is another petition set up by reenactors at http;//petitions.pm.gov.uk/reenactment/ with over 700 signatures on it!It would be as well to sign up to theirs at the same time you sign simons.“the more the merrier!”
— john s green · Feb 2, 13:45 · #
ive got a replica winchester and colt 1845 on my wall an decided late october 07 to get a modern SMG/rifle to go with them. found out at the end of that month all modern replicas were to be banned-GUTTED.
had found a metal/wood replica AK-47 for 100 euros.
next i tried BB GUNS/AIRSOFT. found MP-40 £175 but thats a no go, all metal real looking ones mean you have to be part of a club and prove you also run around the woods with it firing at others, I JUST WANT TO PUT IT ON THE WALL.
next found a cap fireing MP-40 £125, none cap static version £150, all metal and looked the bollocks, but another problem. cause its not a replica and is’nt airsoft bb it would most likely have to be painted bright colours on the off chance i were to rob a bank and it would then be obvious that it werent real.
my only option now is to buy a de-activated real one which is ok to do. for an AK-47 its £250 for the one i like and around £1000 fo a MP-40.
am i missing something? could i not then walk legaly into a bank if i wanted with a real looking gun?
i just want a gun for my wall and replicas are alot cheaper, i just dont see the point in banning pretend guns.isnt that what replicas, BB, an cap firers are?
— lee woodhouse · Feb 2, 20:50 · #
I have recently sold some of my collection of deactivated guns for financial reasons. I was sad to do this as I have spent a lot of time and money building up the collection and the supporting knowledge. I work in the museum industry and have on a number of occasions used items from my collection in exhibitions. This would not have been possible without deactivated guns as many museums do not hold firearms licences.
Banning deactivated guns will not help to combat gun crime at all because it is the end result of a society that is breaking down, not the cause of that breakdown. People need to be educated and it is this education that the government should be concentrating on, and not just for gun crime, but all types of crime that happen because people are walking the streets carrying weapons.
It is an unfortunate reality however that violence is a part of human nature and no matter what we do to try to combat violent crime, it will never go away. It is not a weapon that kills someone, it is the person that is holding the weapon, and these people will always find a way to carry it out one way or another.
I would also like to say that without ammunition, a gun is just a mechanical object, so where is the ammunition coming from?
It is a very complex issue indeed and one that is often surrounded by very strong emotions, but I just hope the government doesn’t give in to a knee jerk reaction.
— dave · Feb 3, 18:53 · #
In the last 10 years under labour rule, our once great nation, the United Kingdom, has become a very crap nation. What has Gordon Brown done since he came into power?? NOTHING, hes only made Stealth Taxes, done nothing to help the public, but only ruin it, also, he has made a crap government, who are banning collectable items, such as Airsoft Guns last year in October 1st 2007, and this year, they’re going to ban Samurai swords, and by the end of this year, somebody called Jacqui Smith, is trying to ban Deactivated Guns, which are purely for collecting, and re-enacting, unless your a retarded chav, yob or “Gangster” who wants to be “cool” and reactivate the guns to harm the public with. Please, im only 15, so I cant do anything, but maybe you more complex and award winning adults can? Contact Jacqui Smith, http://www.jacquismithmp.co.uk/ Britain and the UK shall not fall again. (In my opinion, the greatest Prime Minister, was Winston Churchill.
— Jordan Toovey · Feb 5, 21:50 · #
I have not visited this forum for a couple of weeks but am heartened by some of the comments, which show that many collectors are responsible and sensible in their views. Some of the others however have rushed into print without reviewing the situation carefully. There is still a lot of talk about deactivated weapons being ‘banned’. If you read the reports of Jacqui Smith’s announcement last month you will see that at no stage did she mention the word ‘ban’. In fact, she was very careful to avoid any direct reference to what her actual proposals were. I had the opportunity to meet her a couple of weeks ago to discuss this issue and I am still no clearer as to what her intentions are and I suspect she is not sure either. She impressed me as someone who is not going to amke a ‘knee-jerk’ reaction, as many of your correspondents think, but will consider this issue very carefully and take into account various opinions before coming to a decision. However, it is clear that she will do something. As I stated in my earlier contribution to this forum, I have no wish to see genuine collectors compromised, all I want to see is some way of ensuring that everything possible is done to prevent further loss of life through the use of reactivated firearms. I have always held the view that the most important issue is to educate young people and change the mindset so that they do not think it is ‘cool’ or ‘macho’ to carry and/or use guns (whether live or deactivated). Think back to crash helmets and seat belts and all the controversy when they became compulsory. Now people think that anyone not using them is an idiot. The same with drink driving, I can remember when young people thought this was quite acceptable. Nowadays they are the ones who are showing up the older generation, who have failed to adapt. It can be done but it will not be easy and all genuine collectors should use their energies to support sensible initiatives, such as a licensing system for deactivated weapons, with proper storage controls. Help to educate young collectors, such as Jordan, that possessing these weapons (which is what they still are, even if they are deactivated) brings with it a responsibility to ensure that they never fall into the wrong hands. This is not a political issue, it is something that affects every member of the community. Those who try to make it political do your membership a grave disservice.
— steve · Feb 19, 01:01 · #
I am 22 years of age, I have been a collector of militaria since I was young, my first piece was 4 inert rounds from a .30cal Browning machine gun, Ive been hooked ever since. Now i own many other items helmets, knives, bayonets, pouches, books. Ive had a Bren mk1 since i was 17, i have never taken it outside of my house or even once thought of reactivating it!!!….I find it INSULTING how prejudice these MP’s are being!!… I also own a G code WW2 mauser rifle which was made illegally in Germany in 1935, it was captured by the Russians in the battle of Stalingrad one of the most bloodiest battles in WW2….
Catch my drift anyone??
Not all us Youngsters hang round in gangs and Mugg old people, some of us have a bit of respect.
I COLLECT DEACTIVATED GUNS BECAUSE I HAVE RESPECT FOR THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE HAD TO FIGHT IN WARS AND DIED, GIVEN UP THEIR YOUTH OR SUFFERED MENTALLY, THEY HAVE HAD TO GO THROUGH THE MOST INSANEST ‘’‘MANMADE’‘ ACT IN THE WORLD.. THESE ARE THE TOOLS THEY HAD TO PULL THE TRIGGER ON TO KILL A FELLOW HUMAN BEING THEY DIDNT EVEN KNOW…SOMEONE THEIR GOVERNMENT BRAINWASHED THEM INTO THINKING THEY WERE EVIL..AND WHAT FOR??
YES!! THATS IT!! EUREKA!!!…SO RICH PEOPLE AND GOVERNMENTS CAN KEEP THEIR POSSESIONS, STATUS’ MONEY AND LAND , SO THEY CAN CARRY ON BEING GREEDY…WE ARE THE ONES THAT SUFFER!
This country is loosing the plot, they should start getting their facts right!
I mean we dont even have celebrations for these brave men anymore…Us collectors have an understanding of war and what it must be like, (unless you are a veteran) and for some of us this is our way.
DONT BELIEVE THE TRUTH!
U HAVE A VOICE USE IT!
DONT SIT IN SILENCE!
DO NOT BE AFRAID!
WE DO NOT LIVE IN A DICTATORSHIP!
IF ‘YOU’ CARE TAKE ACTION!
— Duncan Hardie · Feb 19, 01:05 · #
ref to steve(44)Are you saying that the home secretary did not say :quote(I will find a way effectively to ban those guns and get them out of circulation by the end of the year.)because thats the way I read it! I,m sorry steve but having seen how the government dealt with the brocock air gun ban and the farcial violent crime reduction bill I,m afraid kneejerk is exactly what we are going to get!It seems to me the gun owning community has to brace itself for more legislation every time the government appoints a new home secratary who is trying to make their mark!
— john s green · Feb 19, 22:30 · #
Steve, once again I do feel for you but I have to ask would you be asking for the banning of alcohol if your son had been killed by a drunk driver?
Gun owners are an easy targets and always have been so, something happens involving firearms its time for a new ban. No one seems to care that most gun owners are caring and good people.
Most people that own a deactivated firearms are not going to go out and reactivated them, I myself own a Lee Enfield 303 that I had deactivated before I moved to the USA. I was going to have it shipped to me here and reactive it but the amount of damage that is done during the deactivation process makes it pointless and I am planning on just selling the gun in the UK in its deactivated state.
Here is the problem, gun owners in the UK will try to appease the antigun lobby and will not stand up against them, end result you will lose your guns. No one felt sorry for me when I had to hand in my handguns that I legally purchased and then had to wait 18 months for payment for.
Its time for action, if you don’t make a stance now, its only a matter of time before your other deactivated guns are banned along with all other firearms in the uk.
Sorry for the hard line but it is only the truth
— Gary · Feb 27, 00:13 · #
The antigun lobby in this country unfortunately adds to the problem of firearms being used in crime. Whereas in other countries, firearms offenders run the risk of legitimate civilians defending themselves with equivalent force, in the UK we seek to aid criminals by taking away that fear. I can understand law enforcement officers wanting to be able to distinguish firearms during the course of a crime in which firearms come into play, but then we have the question of common sense.
Are the majority of our police armed? No, so there should be few instances of incidents where owners of imitation weapons should come under fire from police officers. Second of all, is the banning of de-activated weapons going to achieve anything? No, because a legally de-activated weapon with attached certificate is very difficult to reactivate without replacement parts and those are illegal to import.
Is this just a quick and easy way to lobby favor from certain demographics so the government can SAY that they are tackling gun crime ( ironicially by infringing the rights of legal owners which is a crime in itself ) – yes I think they are. We do as a community need to take a stand against this, no imflammatory comments, just clinical, precise and sensible discussion!
— Duncan Wardlaw · Feb 27, 23:05 · #
Having collected militaria for well over 30 yrs,I have to say this latest stunt will solve nothing of the gun crime problem.It has always been possible to obtain a live firing weapon if you so desire & know who to reach & this will always be the case while there is an element who wish to use them.Newspaper articles maintaining a de ac can be a re ac in 5 minutes are just headline grabbing rot.I own several deactivated weapons & obsolete calibres from a Brown Bess to an SLR & wonder if those in charge of the asylum have any statistics on when a full bore service rifle was last used in a crime?
As usual HMG refuses to address the problem & is merely tinkering around the remote edges which constitute no problem at all.The majority of weapons we collect were carried by our ancestors to protect the freedoms we now (but for how much longer?) enjoy.
I feel licensing is over the top & while it does provide a clear indication of what is about,it might also allow those who wish to,to then say well everything after a certain date will not be allowed as it isn’t in our view “historic”.
This is the thin end of a wedge that began with the banning of pistols,has done nothing to reduce gun crime & now promises to alienate another law abiding section of society.
— James Adair · Feb 28, 13:44 · #